New shape plots

cw12574

Hi guys,

Premium subscriber and hugely appreciate all the work you do.

The change of shape plot today has messed me up a little bit. Having the effective VO2max moving average line over the top of the CTL and ATL chart was really useful to me. I know they are on different scales, but I was still able to get a good sense of how trends in my CTL affect my effective VO2max in the short term.

There's obviously a strong correlation between the two, but also, the more years I run, the higher my effective VO2max gets with the same CTL so there has been a degree of detachment.

However, it's still really useful for me to observe how changes in CTL affect my VO2max in the short term, and I used to be able to see this visually when they were on the same shape plot. It's now much harder to visualize this with the new format.

Is there any chance you could add the VO2max points and moving average to the top shape plot (maybe default unchecked so default not visible)? That way, you could keep the nice aesthetic change, but allow people like me to still overlay VO2max if we need to?

Thanks,
Chris

Takeoffm77

I support this. The new chart seperation is horrible and absolutely counterproductive. I loved the feature of having all plots overlaying with the ability to activate or deactivate.

Please bring that back, or at least keep it in as an alternative view setting.

Thank you!

t0yz

I am adding my agreement here.
The former overlay was very well done and easy to use and customize. It's not just the VO2max/activity missing/being its own thing now, but also the dots that are in that transparent/muted grey are way worse on the eyes than the former black dots.
Now, if this was about web design, yes, this looks more modern.
If it's about ease of reading the data and ease of use, it's way worse.
I know you cannot offer two versions forever, and that you need a cohesive website design that is attractive and modern.
Maybe there's a way to do it inside the new design? Maybe we could brainstorm something that works for all?
Thanks a lot for everything!

mipapo

Hannes and I will discuss this.

cw12574

Thanks @mipapo.

Also, just noticed that the effective VO2max chart's y-axis starts from 0 which makes it quite hard to read/see any variance:

Thanks again,
Chris

Laufhannes

Yeah, we will fix that. That’s definitely not intended.

mvdberg

I'm also not to fond of the new separated graphs. If you stick to this design I sugest an option to overlay a chart over a given graph. Like Garmin Connect does.

mipapo

We will offer somehow the multi chart as before. Already working on it, hopefully ready end of next week

cw12574

mipapo

Thanks so much guys. Appreciate it a lot!

jordan

Hey wanted to add one thing while you're working on this - the scale for VO2 max can be off the other way too. Mine goes up to 60 now which makes it hard to see the actual variation.

I kind of like the split out plots but it would be great for them to project into the future like the old plot did, I thought that was useful for race planning.

mipapo

jordan @cw12574 just wrote the same 4 posts before you 😉

jordan

mipapo just wanted to make sure you knew it went he other way too - ie not just an issue about starting with zero, the bottom of the scale is fine on mine it is the top that is extended too high.

mipapo

Not yet released (work in progress)

t0yz

mipapo If you are looking for feedback

maybe a bit thicker lines
maybe better visibility for the dots (more opacity, more contrast with light/dark bg)
better scaling for TRIMP bars? Plus opacity again. More opacity should not be a problem since plots can be turned off with a click for those not interested
All I can think off from that picture. The dot spread/VO2max visibility interval should be quite important here, probably want the majority of the activity dots to fall above the TRIMP bars. But, not an issue if the interval can be set, or simply you can click off the TRIMP.
Thank you!

Laufhannes

My thoughts:

Here, Marathon shape is the only one with an area filling (simply as it's the only one in the seperate charts). If there's an area filling, I think it's more important/appropriate for ATL/CTL
ATL/CTL/Marathon shape all live on a % scale (at least in standard config). I'd prefer them living on the same y axis
A:C should not take the full y scale, maybe just in the lower quarter. In this example, those changes look extreme (but they aren't)
As TRIMP bars are limited to the lower part, it could be helpful to limit VO2max dots/line to the upper part

Yes, feel free to add your thoughts about all this. Otherwise it's just me and mipapo deciding what's "right".

And also, feel free to add more whishes and thoughts for the whole chart and view, if there are any. Right now is the best time to affect our implementation 😉

cw12574

Laufhannes

The new one looks really good to me. I like how the lines are colour-coordinated with the scales.

I agree with the @t0yz that maybe the TRIMP bars and VO2max points could stand out a bit more, but maybe they do if you toggle marathon shape off?

The main thing for me is being able to see how trends in CTL affect the effective VO2max average, which this new version is great for.

Appreciate you guys as always.

runalyze

The combined plot is back for you. The selection (list vs. grid vs. combined) is persisted in your localStorage.

cw12574

runalyze Excellent, thanks.

Is the VO2max scale supposed to be sort of floating on the right? When it used to take up the whole length of the y axis, my CTL and VO2max moving average almost perfectly correlated with some slight decoupling after about a year of training. Is now harder to see that with the VO2max not using the full y axis.

I know I sound like I'm being unnecessarily pedantic, but the relationship was so strong that I could roughly predict what CTL I would need to do to reach a certain effective VO2max visually using the chart, which is huge and allowed me to hit my goal marathon time in April.

Would it be possible to get VO2max to take up the full length of the y axis?

Otherwise, it looks great. Thanks again!

Pedro_McWaldo

runalyze
I can't seem to edit my above comment but I wanted to say I liked the TSB graph going into the future to get a better intuition for peaking phases.

I hope you can add it back in!!

nolancaster

Just noticed all these changes for the first time today and really like the new view. However, one thing I liked about the old chart was being able to look into the future a bit to project how rest would affect my training load or how my VO2 max would trend. Not a huge deal by any means, but it was something I looked at from time to time.

Nonayo

nolancaster
I concur, i like the new shape plot, but i miss (just a little) the "lookahead" of like 4 weeks (or however much that was)

Pedro_McWaldo

Nonayo
Yep seconding this
I liked how the old plot would continue into the future
Please consider adding this back in please!